New Style Grants

To date I have received two new style Grants.

In each estate there were two or more Executors. Each Grant stated that X ( the first-name Executor) “made an application to this Court for a Grant of Probate and declared the following …” with
no reference whatever to the other Executor(s). The administration of the estate was then correctly granted to all the Executors who signed the Statement of Truth.

Should the recital about the Statement of Truth have referred to all the Executors who made the Statement? Has anyone else received a Grant where the application was made by more than one Executor and, if so, did the recital about the Statement of Truth refer
only to the first-named Executor or to all the Executors?

Cliona O’Tuama

Solicitor

All of the ones I have seen so far only have the first-named executor as making an application if there is more than one.

Jeremy Crouch
Clintons

I have just had a response from the Probate feedback dept regarding the email I sent them about the mistakes on the Grants, them not having included all the copies when they sent the Grant and there not being a copy Will and the response was as follows:

"Good Evening,

Thank you for your feedback.

We no longer attach a sealed copy of the will automatically because the applicant no longer needs to send us multiple copies of the will. If someone would like a copy of the will for either a digital or paper application, the registry can provide this. From time to time we will still attach a copy of the will – for example if there is a fiat will.

If you have any further queries or feedback, please contact this address."

This seems like a farce - why not just attach a copy of the proved Will to one of the Grants? I don’t know about other practitioners, but when I am distributing an estate I always referred to the cream Grant and Will when looking to distribute.

Also, to reply to Cliona O’Tuama the Grants I have received back have only got the first applicant on the beginning of the recital then refer to both of them further down. I am not sure why they are doing this and it is needlessly confusing for clients as both clients whose Grants have been received queried this.

Gemma Van Duke
Bishopsgate Law

I am grateful to Gemma Van Duke for her reply to my query about new style Grants in estates with more than one Executor. I note that the Grants that she received in such estates also referred only to the first applicant in the recital and then to all Executors in the main body of the Grant. Like Gemma, I have no idea why the Probate Registries have decided to do this and am sure that most Executor clients will query this, especially those whose names were not included.

Cliona O’Tuama

Solicitor

To date I have received three of the new style Grants, all issued by different Registries. In each estate the deceased individual had died domiciled in Ireland but each Grant mistakenly said that
he/she died domiciled in England and Wales. On each Grant “England and Wales” was crossed out in red pen and “the Republic of Ireland” written in in the same red pen. In two of those Grants there was an official stamp beside the manual amendment but there
was no such stamp on the third Grant, so I had to return it for an official stamp to be impressed, as otherwise there was nothing to indicate that the amendment had been made at the Probate Registry and not by me!

The manual amendments on the Grants make the Grants look really shoddy and indeed may lead to the Grants being rejected by financial institutions or registrars. I find it unbelievable that the
system was set up in such a way that it cannot cope with a non-UK domicile. If it can cope with this, then the staff at the respective Registries have been negligent in not checking the Grants before they were issued.

Cliona O’Tuama

Solicitor

I now have a matter where a caveat was in place but a Grant has still been issued by the probate registry. It seems to me that the new computer system is not fit for purpose.

Sarah Arundel
Taylor Fawcett

That is shocking. I agree completely that the new computer system is not fit for purposes.

Yesterday I receive a Grant referring to the deceased’s Will and administration being granted to the Executor when in fact the deceased died intestate. To date I have received only one new style
Grant that I did not need to return to be amended.

Cliona O’Tuama

Solicitor

Either the new computer system is not fit for purpose or the staff at the registries are not dealing with applications appropriately!!!

I submitted an application for probate on 12 April 2019 and the registry in question cashed the cheque 5 days later.

After weeks of chasing and advising them of a house sale pending the arrival of the Grant, I received a response from the registry as follows: Please only contact us if the matter is extremely urgent e.g. house sale where the date of completion has been fixed and is within the next week!!!

I FINALLY received the extracted grant on 13 June 2019 and was disappointed to see that they had referred to the deceased’s alias incorrectly. Furthermore they had misspelt the name of the Executor!!
Luckily the correct details were provided within the Statement of Truth, Will and copy of the death certificate!!! HOW they can make such mistakes on such an important document is beyond me!!!
Tried calling them, no answer!! Emailed them to receive a response more than 24 hours later!!!

I returned all copies of the Grant to the registry requesting urgent attention and till date, 01 July 2019… no sight of the correct Grant!!!

I have called the registry to be told it is sitting on a colleague’s desk!!! No sense of urgency when I ask them why it is taking so long!!!

The whole process is becoming a joke and as Solicitors we are having to face backlash from clients due to the delays!

Sarah Bourke
Walker Solicitors

I am not a solicitor but have read these
threads with interest and can sympathise with what I personally consider to be
the continuing unacceptable position they (and others) are currently facing.

Might I strongly suggest that if any forum
members that have encountered these types of problems have not already done so
they make strong representations to their professional bodies, asking them to take
matters up at the highest possible level.

The more formal complaints that are lodged
the better the chance that matters might be remedied.

As yet I have not personally heard anything
about the situation in the media.

It is my personal view that quite often a
‘leaked unattributed’ disclosure to a media outlet that is prepared to take the
story up at national level can carry more weight than formal complaints.

Andrew M Mortimer

I had a Grant (plus office copies) issued to me on the 12th July (after waiting 3 months) and have now had a further Grant (plus office copies) issued to me on the 8th August, for the same estate!

They really do not know what they are doing…

Gemma Van Duke
Bishopsgate Law

In March we lodged an application for a Grant of Probate to be resealed. We have just received a grant of ‘letter’ of administration with will issued to me as attorney for the executors!

Elizabeth Neale
BDB Pitmans

We currently have significant numbers of paper Grant applications outstanding, sent to Newcastle DPR.

One, in particular, which we have followed up on due to a time-sensitive property chain (a beneficiary currently residing in the Estate property who requires to vacate on or before completion, and requires funds frm the Estate to complete the linked property purchase).

Further to sending our initial application on 9 May 2022, we chased on 7 June 2022 and were advised that they had no record of the application therefore we sent a further copy of all documents including certified copy will, estate statement etc. on that date.

We then emailed Newcastle DPR’s solicitors’ enquiries once more on 25 June 2022, when we were advised that they were unable to locate either piece of correspondence on their system. On 5 July we were asked to provide details of the deceased, and then received the following response:

“Thank you for your email. Your application is not yet on the system. We input all applications in strict date order and are currently inputting applications received on 29th April 2022. Any application received after this date will be placed in the queue of work to be processed.”

We asked for details of when our application was deemed to have been received by return message, and today received the same cut and paste response as we received on 5 July 2022.

Does anyone know if there is any internal process at NDPR to log original documents received, as we have reasonable cause for concern at this point?

MIchael Fogg
Trusting Willpower

Suggest you e-mail and threaten to lodge a formal complaint in say 10 working days. Advise you will send the complaint by e-mail direct to them in Newcastle and the usual e-mail and by letters to Harlow and Newcastle (Special Delivery). Send all correspondence again in said e-mail.

You will probably have to go through with the complaint as unlikely they will respond in time. But make sure you do carry out the threat. I did this after a disgraceful way they handled a DBN application. It worked as the matter was sorted within a few days of sending the official complaints.

I am sure this was not a coincidence as I received the written response to my complaint only this week, a full three weeks after receiving the Grant in question.

I accept Newcastle are swamped but they are creating their own problems with how they handle matters. But then we can say that about most things where the Govt. are concerned - OPG, courts, Passport, DVLA and on and on…

1 Like

Karl - out of interest what was their response? Sorry?

Quite. I have lost all faith in DX therefore Royal Mail Special Delivery is the way to go in ensuring correspondence is traced from dispatch to receipt…