Reporting New Trusts


(Andrew M Mortimer) #1

For information I’ve just received this message from HMRC
"Trusts and estates: trust details (41G (Trust))
11:02am, 19 May 2017 Form 41G(Trusts) has been withdrawn.
Registration form 41G(Trust) is no longer in use.
Form 41G (Trust) has been withdrawn and will be replaced during summer 2017 by a new registration service. When this is available all trusts with a tax liability should use it to register with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).

You can find more information about the new service and when to register your trust with HMRC in the April Trusts and Estates newsletter. You can also contact HMRC Trusts service for specific advice about registering your trust or estate."

Note “has been withdrawn” and “will be replaced during summer 2017”!!

Andrew M Mortimer


(andrew.goodman) #2

And the original plan to launch the portal in June was put in place before the election was called, which will delay the new ML regulations, trust register and presumably the online portal that implements it until July or over into September.

Andrew Goodman


(malcfinney1) #3

Per Newsletter:

“Form 41G(Trust) will no longer be accepted from the end of April 2017.”

Malcolm Finney


#4

We sent in a 41G after the end of April 2017 and it has been accepted.

Victoria Chant
Lester Aldridge Llp


#5

We sent a 41G and 64-8 just a few days before 30th April 2017.
Not heard from HMRC yet.

Sameera Nathoo


(Andrew M Mortimer) #6

Just received following message

“Trusts and estates registration service
http://links.govdelivery.com/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbXNpZD0mYXVpZD0mbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTcwNzEwLjc1NjgxMjMxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDE3MDcxMC43NTY4MTIzMSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3MDc1NDY1JmVtYWlsaWQ9YS5tb3J0aW1lckB0YWxrMjEuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1hLm1vcnRpbWVyQHRhbGsyMS5jb20mdGFyZ2V0aWQ9JmZsPSZtdmlkPSZleHRyYT0mJiY=&&&101&&&https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/trusts-and-estates-trust-details-41g-trust
9:18am, 10 July 2017 The Trusts and Estates online registration services
have been added to allow individuals to register their trust or complex
estate.
Register your trust or estate with the HM Revenue and Customs online
service, this replaces form 41G(Trusts).”

Andrew M Mortimer


(Jeremy Crouch) #7

When I followed the link it took me to the Government Gateway login site and when I logged in I get a message saying “Sorry this service is not available to agents”. Does this mean that we have to set up Gateway accounts for each trust as well?

Jeremy Crouch
Clintons


(Julian Cohen) #8

Don’t try to register yet – it doesn’t go live till the end of the week.

Julian Cohen, solicitor


(paul.storrie) #9

It would appear that this service is only available to individuals, so presumably one of the trustees or executors of a new trust/estate should access it?

Paul Storrie
Storrie & Company


(Carlton Collister) #10

As Paul says, currently only available to trustees or executors of a new trust/estate.
From HMRC Trusts and Estates Newsletter: April 2017, with my emphasis:

The project is being delivered through a number of phases and initially only lead trustees or personal representatives will be able to use the Trusts Registration Service. Agents will be able to register a new trust before October 2017 and more information will be provided on when and how they can use the Trusts Registration Service through the usual channels. The ability to update a trust that has registered on the Trusts Register will also be introduced in the autumn.

Carlton Collister
landtax llp


(Lee Young) #11

When trying to access the Trust Register it says that it is “not available to agents”. Does this mean that each trust has to have a separate account/activation/gateway account?

Lee Young
Frettens LLP


(richard.fenton) #12

I’m an individual trustee and received this email today from the weekly digest and bulletin:

Trusts and estates registration service
9:18am, 10 July 2017 The Trusts and Estates online registration services have been added to allow individuals to register their trust or complex estate.
Register your trust or estate with the HM Revenue and Customs online service, this replaces form 41G(Trusts).

When I tried to register my trust which is already registered via 41G and has a SA account, I got into a nightmare maze of confusion:

  • tried to register using my existing government gateway account for this trust - message is 'already registered for government services, create a new account!!
  • created a new account, follow the links to register new trust or estate, and get to page that only talks about estates.

Come back in 3 months I think.

Is there a deadline to register existing trusts, and why does an existing trust with SA account need to be registered anyway?

Richard Fenton


(paul.storrie) #13

Having created a new Gateway login as an “organisation”, I’ve been registering a new trust (as trustee). The following questions are asked:

QU: ARE THE BENEFICIARIES A CLASS OF BENEFICIARY WHICH INVOLVES INDIVIDUALS THAT CAN’T BE IDENTIFIED? (FOR EXAMPLE, CHILDREN NOT YET BORN OR CURRENTLY UNIDENTIFIABLE, LIKELY TO SIT IN A FAMILY TRUST)

Paul Storrie
Storrie & Company


(Lee Young) #14

I had this email over a week ago and have heard nothing since. ON another, where I go to the end, I’m still waiting after three weeks for the issued UTR. I think there are some teething issues……

Dear Mr Young

We have been experiencing problems with the Service for a number of our users.

We are working hard to resolve these issues and are hoping to be able to advise resolution very soon.

Can I please ask that you refrain from using the service at this stage and we will advise you as soon as possible via E mail when the service can be accessed.

I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused and we appreciate your patience while we are trying to resolve these issues.

Thank you

Lee Young
Frettens LLP


(Jenny O'Neill) #15

Has anyone made any progress with this?

I have just created what I thought was a Govt Gateway account for our trust company to register a trust where we are the sole Trustee and the way it is all set up it does look as if you would need to do this for each individual Trust as a non-agent. Unfortunately I cannot finalise it as I do not have the date of birth and NI number for the beneficiary - slightly frustrating that it does not let you beyond a page with missing information so that you can ascertain ALL the details that you will need to input. I could not find an option to ‘register another trust’.

Are we still just waiting for a HMRC announcement as to when the glitches have been sorted as Lee suggested in the previous post?

Thank you.

Jenny O’Neill
Royds Withy King


(Rachel Saunders) #16

I telephoned HMRC recently and was told that it was still not possible to register as an agent yet. They expected that it would be up and running from October. I shall wait and see!

Rachel Saunders
Hart Law LLP


(paul.storrie) #17

Problems with the new system are still ongoing – I am in correspondence with Jackie Cruikshank at HMRC on the matter (who was cited as the point of contact in the April 2017 edition of the HMRC Trusts and Estates Newsletter) and will advise when the issues are resolved.

Paul Storrie
Storrie & Company


(Carlton Collister) #18

From ICAEW Tax Faculty, quoting HMRC although I have been unable to see reference:
In order to allow more time for agents to meet their obligations, HMRC has announced a 2 month extension to the deadline, as follows:
‘In this first year of TRS, to allow sufficient time to complete the registration of a trust for self-assessment and provide beneficial ownership information there will be, a two month extension to the deadline. No penalty will be imposed where registration is completed after 5 October but before 5 December 2017.
More information on when and how they can use the Trusts Registration Service will be provided soon through the usual channels and on Gov.uk.
More details will be provided via the Trusts and Estates Newsletter which is due to be published on 14th September.’

Carlton Collister
landtax llp


(Raymond Magill) #19

I can see nothing in the Regulations to suggest a 5 October deadline; so a deferral to 5 December is irrelevant. In fact, draft FAQs I’ve seen suggest that 5 October would only apply to a trust not within self-assessment already [which I suppose one may equate with not having a received a notice under S.8A TMA 1970] which has tax liability for 2016/17 - but the trustees in that situation already have an obligation to notify HMRC by 5 October 2017 under S.7 TMA 1970. Although HMRC say that their Tax Registration Service implements the Regulations [SI.2017/692], they don’t seem prepared to follow them very closely.

Ray Magill


(Diana Smart) #20

I am really confused about this process.

I wanted to register an estate for tax returns. I am one of the executors so I thought I would try to register the estate in that capacity rather than waiting for the agent access and created a new Govt Gateway account to do that in August. All seemed well in that I received a UTR and have submitted an online estate tax return.

I then thought I would try to do the same for a trust of which I am trustee. It is not a new trust but we need to update the trust records. Somehow in this process I ended up using the same Govt Gateway user ID and have now received and registered the access code. The result seems to be that that Govt Gateway account is now attached only to that trust (with no record of the estate) but all I can do is see the tax and tax return information, exactly the same as we get as agents. I can’t find anywhere to update the trust details and when I try to go into that account via the HMRC link to the trust register it tells me that that account is already registered for other online services.

I did try calling HMRC for help but as usual, after waiting 10 mins for someone to talk to me I gave up.

Has anyone else tried to do this?

Diana Smart
Gordons LLP