So the property was owned out right by the deceased. The wording in the will instructs the three trustees (one who of which is a remainderman and will inherit the property after the husbands death) to hold the property on trust for life for the husband until he passes or breaks any conditions ie not maintaining the property etc. Upon the husbands death the property will go to one of the trustees (the deceaseds son)
The property currently still in the deceaseds name and assent has yet to be done.
Trying to find a suitable place to post this without starting a new TRS post. My response from HMRC regarding a life interest trust in a Will, with husband life interest and children as remainderman beneficiaries. All are trustees. I read the advice as not needing to be registered but have on this forum been advised otherwise. HMRCs response is wholly unhelpful! ps it’s taken 2 months to reply.
Thank you for your patience in awaiting a response.
The subject matter expert has responded with the following:
A trust created by will, for example a trust giving the surviving spouse an life interest, is excluded from registration for a period of two years after the date of death.
Please see our guidance for trusts created by will at TRSM23020, in particular the section on wills that interact with existing trusts or property trusts.
There is also guidance on property trusts at TRSM23050.
Please consult our guidance on property trusts at TRSM23050.
Whether the co-ownership exclusion would apply will depend on the specific circumstances.
Trustees should review the guidance and determine, to the best of their understanding, whether their trust needs to register.
If trustees are unsure we recommend they make a decision and keep a note of the reasons for that decision.
HMRC’s reply is contemptuous and contemptible. It is the sort of response you get on the Customer Forum. I am waiting for replies to several letters and expect the first responses to be all like this. My strategy is to keep asking. I can’t make a non-statutory clearance application because these days my points are all hypothetical but if you have a client case it seems a possibility. And you can e-mail! Nothing in the guidance says TRS is not in scope Find out about the Non-Statutory Clearance Service - GOV.UK.
A point is proved in this weeks Taxation Magazine, with two answers to a client question about an Estate - one responding that the trust does not need to be registered and the other saying it does!
I note different dates referred to above, which I find comforting in that I am not confident on what date should be submitted for the joint ownership property Trust effective/start date. ****
A registrable joint ownership Trust will often arise from a Will lifetime interest Trust (Executors to register as legal owners holding for those beneficially entitled). Therefore can it be said that the 2-yr deadline from DOD applies? Or is it the case that 90 day deadline applies (because the Trust relates to the property joint ownership, not strictly speaking from death), and then from the date of the assent and/or HMLR title being updated?
I would be grateful for any feedback on the approach taken, as I cannot see definite HMRC guidance on this practical point.
In the situation referred to by Skippyp, there are 2 trusts:
The trust of land and, separately
The testamentary trust of the half (?) share of the land
The 90 day reporting window applies to the change in trustees of the trust of land, staring with the date of death, as the exemption no longer applies.
The 2 year window applies to the testamentary trust, although the TRSM also indicates that where property is appropriated to the trustees of a testamentary trust, the trust needs to be registered within 90 days of that appropriation (I currently don’t have access to the TRSM so cannot give the reference.
Paul Saunders FCIB TEP
Independent Trust Consultant
Providing support and advice to fellow professionals