Trusts Registration Service - Some answers!

(Cindy Chaplin) #1

A trust which was wound up before 10 August 2017 does not need to register, even if it has a liability in 16/17.

A trust with a Vulnerable Beneficiary Election does not need to register.

Answers via HMRC today.

Cindy Chaplin
Larking Gowen

(Katherine Webber) #2

You reference the date 10 August 2017 - is this because you asked a question about a specific trust that wound up then or is this a cut-off?
Very useful info, thank you Cindy.

Katherine Webber
Birketts LLP

(Cindy Chaplin) #3

No. I asked the question generally, as we have a few like this.

Cindy Chaplin
Larking Gowen


it could be because the first agent’s webinar was held on 10th Aug. They may have made the change since then.
I have not gone through the webinar to check though.

Sameera Nathoo


Can someone please clarify if a trust has no CGT liability in 2016/17 (the actual CGT liability occurred in March 2016) but it returned the CGT return late and paid penalties on late filing/payment of tax in 2016/17, is this considered ‘liability’ for TRS registration purposes?

Sameera Nathoo

(edward) #6

I would say no, based on the recent guidance section which states the relevant date is when the tax liability is triggered, not when the tax is actually paid.

Edward Evans
Payne Hicks Beach


sorry for a dumb question.

For the purpose of registering a trust, if one registers a ‘new’ trust (technically not a new trust but an old one without a UTR), is this the same thing as registering a trust for TRS purposes? :thinking:

Sameera Nathoo

(Lucy Orrow) #8

Hi Sameera, Do you mean you’ve come across a trust which hasn’t previously advised HMRC of a tax liability and so now you are registering late? Then yes, register as a NEW trust and it will ask you the start date of the trust and issue tax returns for all those preceeding years. I have done this on a couple of trusts and one Estate and it worked quite well. You still need to send off a 64-8 separately don’t forget but it will ensure a UTR is issued.

Lucy Orrow
Lambert Chapman LLP


Hi Lucy

Thank you.

This trust is only liable to IHT so it does not have a UTR which is usually issued if the trust has income tax liability.
However for the purpose of TRS registration I registered it as new trust but with no income tax or CGT liability.

Once I have done so, will HMRC issue a UTR and has the trust been registered officially under TRS ?

Sameera Nathoo

(Lucy Orrow) #10

Hi Sameera,

I’m not sure that they would issue a UTR as there is no tax liability. Do you think you need one?

If you’ve registered it for IHT then it is registered under TRS assuming that’s its only liability. Presumably if latterly you need a UTR because there is a tax liability then this would be part of the annual review process, which isn’t yet available.

Lucy Orrow
Lambert Chapman LLP


Thanks, Lucy. Nope UTR not required but it felt like I was sending in the form 41G but also doing the TRS bit!.
Let’s see if a UTR comes through. I wil lupdate this thread if it does.

Many thanks for your help

Sameera Nathoo


HMRC did send the UTR numbers and 3 letters to files tax returns for following reasons:

2014/15 - underpayment of PAYE -?!

2015/16 - Underpayment of PAYE -?!

2016/17 - liable to income tax

I have now requested agent authorisations for income tax, once it comes through, I will need to call them and get the above notices removed.

I did state in the TRS registration that the trust is not liable to income tax or CGT for the above years…
I think I read in another post on this forum that these notices to file were expected…

Sameera Nathoo