Certainty has been going for a while now. We recently merged with a firm that made use of their services, but traditionally we have not.
We are now considering whether it is time to revisit this, and offer Certainty’s services as an additional facility for clients.
I’d love to hear forum members’ views: has it affected your insurance? do clients like it? do you like it?
Fiona Dodd
Mayo Wynne Baxter
We were approached by Certainty when they first started up. I don’t know what their business model is now, but at the time there was a registration fee (per will), but searches of the register were free.
For a few months we trial offered Certainty registration to all of our wills clients, but not a single one was interested. The trouble is that Certainty asks for payment at a time when the testator is certain that the will is not going to be lost.
“But I know where my will is!”
This was what I was told by one of the clients. I explained, of course, that it was about making sure that their family could find the will, but this argument was not sufficiently persuasive.
So, we concluded that this was an awful lot of additional work for which we received no benefit.
While we could have rolled the registration cost into our fixed fee for preparing a will, this makes our headline price higher than it otherwise would be and, from the responses we received, there did not seem to be a marketing advantage to saying that registration of the will was included in the price.
Taurean Drayak
Elliot, Bond & Banbury
Our experience has been rather different. Several of our clients had asked how they could be sure the will would be located when they died. We have been members for about 18 months now and , as yet, nobody has declined to have their will registered. I find that the clients’ are only concerned to know that the contents of the will are not on view.
Mrs J E Bennell
RLK SOLICITORS LTD
We were approached by Certainty in the past year. We considered it, but given that we are a local firm, with the majority of clients being local for several generations, we do not experience Wills being ‘unfindable.’ In the event we need to do a search, we can always pay for an individual search. We provide affordable Wills and don’t believe our clients would be keen on the additional charges for little advantage. It also feels like Certainty is a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy, in that if they create the fear of the missing Wills then they generate their client base.
leslie tuck
QualitySolicitors Mewies
I agree with Leslie again on the basis that the majority of our clients are local and have been with the firm for many years. I am also not so sure about the Will search anyway. So far as I can see those searches generate an email to Solicitors in a certain locality and unless they all accurately check their records and respond, cannot see how anyone can be “sure” there is not another Will. We could just email those Solicitors ourselves. If I am missing the point / looking at this too simplistically, please feel free to correct me! We did look at Certainty and there is a reasonably good marketing tool attached to their system. We just couldn’t justify the additional registration fee in what is already a very cost sensitive area.
Justin Wallace
Brewer Harding & Rowe
We deposit all our wills at the probate registry for safe custody during the lifetime of the testator. The testator gives an undertaking to the Court to inform the executors that the will has been deposited. The probate registry issues a Certificate of Deposit when the will is deposited. When a grant is applied for the probate registry carries out a search to locate any wills deposited. The system is set out in The Wills (Deposit for Safe Custody) Regulations 1978. We keep a copy of the will scanned onto our system which is backed up off site. We also have a paper copy on the file. We have never seen the advantages of Certainty.
Vincent Oakley
We recently joined Certainty and we are happy that the package is designed/intended to be cost free to us through the disbursement services provided. We also found the statistics to be quite compelling – over 6.5 million Wills in Certainty and a Will Search function which covers Wills that are not registered with Certainty as well. We understand that 1 in 10 of these searches turns up a Will which may not have been found otherwise. The search function is a step we feel is an important measure in our estate administration work. When we have been contacted by Certainty, doing a search for another firm, there have been a couple of occasions where we have had an original will that turned out to be the valid will for that estate, and this is what made us realise why the search for unregistered wills is so important too. We also understand it has been recommended by the Official Solicitor in some Court of Protection cases too.
We have a significant number of Wills in our Wills Registry, as I am sure to many other firms. We all like to think that the Wills we hold for our clients will be found at the critical point but it’s clear that sometimes this doesn’t happen, and this is another way to ensure all steps are taken to limit the risk of a valid will being missed. We have Wills which should have been traced but weren’t because of events which happened outside of our control. We see registering our Wills is a simple, confidential measure to ensure that the Will can be found if a ‘gap’ develops between our firm and the client, family, executors etc.
We have had clients who specifically ask for their will to be registered with Certainty, knowing about this option before we have informed them of it.
So far we are happy with this service
Claire Martin
Hanne & Co
May I suggest, in passing, that the current mode in Europe is to set up consultable registers of wills within the ambit of the European Regulation.
That is of practical interest, even post-Brexit, as we were concerned anyway as a non opting in State and wilbe so even after that step is taken. Our clients will need to be able to address this issue in cross border successions.
Speaking from experience with the French system , run by and for notaries, the system works. It ensures a ddgeree of constitutional confidentiality, as it is contrary to the Constitution to force anyone to disclose their testamentary dispositions, prior to their becoming effective on death. That was one underlying, but uniterated core reason for the French Constitutional Court declaring the frankly stupid Register of Trusts as unconstitutional. It is becoming frankly tiresome that administrations and politicians neglect to check whether their legislative proposals are valid or not before implementing them by a statute which has cleft its own foot whilst making une grande geste whilst holding a sharp instrument.
Back to France. The notarial system works so efficiently that it is possible to lose control of the documentary process by a will being found and publicly registered post mortem by a notary for a small fee at eth request of any interested party.
Technically it is the heirs and legatees who administer the succession under the principle of direct seisin, not representation
That can skew the French process, which whilst parallel to probate in the sense that a will has to be presented to the tax administration for a form of franking, it can warp the more liberal French process as the tax administration is then on notice of a will, which may not in fact be the final one affecting the succession. There is no requirement for a representative or executorship under French probate, in effect that is a matter for the directly seized heirs or legatees in France, unless one is nominated and if necessary renvoi en possession post mortem by the testator’ direction in the will, and the ensuing mandate accepted.
I am not sure whether this is of assistance here, as I do not know who can consult Certainty as a matter of right of access.
It does seem to be blossoming into a parallel to the current French system, being but one in Europe.
Peter Harris
I have been a member since I set up my practice eight years ago. Most clients seem to be willing to pay a modest extra charge to cover the cost of initial registration- I pay the cost of reregistering their subsequent wills.
This may reflect some anxiety on their part about my continued status as a sole practitioner and the absence of any declared succession plan!
I don’t think the Certainty model is perfect but it’s a great deal better than nothing.
Going off from will registration slightly, I question whether firms who undertake document storage have really weighed up the risks involved and the demands it makes. I do it all myself, I have thought about it, and I would be delighted if I could outsource client document storage to a solicitor-controlled specialist company. My experience with Certainty suggests that while some clients would be prepared to pay, some more would opt to store their wills at home than do at present, and they need to be advised about the problems that may follow and make an informed choice.
One of the advantages if such a service achieved sufficient scale would be to make searching for wills much more efficient. But- would the investment required be worthwhile if there is a possibility of some form of digital will creation and registration in future? Possibly the non-digital business might be a springboard into the new digital will practice.
Certainty has not yet reached that critical mass which makes a search indispensable. For the time being I would encourage all practitioners to support it by recommending will registration to their clients, for the same reason as mass inoculation against infectious diseases- it benefits everyone.
Tim Gibbons
The probate register is cheaper and truly central, with the advantage it will bring up the Will if a grant is applied for. This is what I recommend to my clients, as I do not store Wills myself.
Simon Northcott
Hi Tim
The most effective process for you and the client is to use Kingscourt Trust for will storage and the will register at the same time.
At no cost to you or the client’s
Certainty estate planners then charge the client a small fee for stored documents (£3 per month.
I hope that helps
Best
Paul Izzo
MD
A single one - off payment of £20 to HMCTS will cover storage by them for life and upon death they will release the will to the executors. On an application for a grant of probate they will search the HMCTS register of wills and notify the applicant if they have a will