Probate Application - 2 year wait from probate registry and still no Grant - what can we do?

Trusts Discussion
1

I am acting for the executrix of an estate whereby the deceased was domiciled in Thailand, and had property in England. His Will, was not dated but we have a post receipt of when the Will was returned to us so we know very closely the date it was completed and that it was his last Will.

We submitted the probate application to the probate registry after completing IHT400 in August 2023. We’ve had the odd back and forth where more information has been required, but over the last year we just hear nothing from them except the odd automatic email saying either that our case has been lost and that we need to resend it (which we have), or that the matter is with a case handler, where nothing gets done.

We’ve called and there’s no system that seems to be in place to escalate this. We can’t continually wait for the probate registry as I think this application is one where they keep passing it around as no-one wants to deal with it.

Is there any process I can follow to get this dealt with once and for all? We’re really quite desperate as there’s an empty house in the estate and we can’t sell it without probate. It’s causing financial hardship to the estate. I don’t know what else I can do and have even started looking at whether we can judicially review the probate registry because i’m at a total loss now.

I’d really appreciate some help, guidance, an email for someone high up. Really anything… Has anyone else come up against this before? There doesn’t seem to be any recourse for situations like this.

2

Assuming you’ve made a complaint (or three), I think the next step is to involve your MP. That seems fairly common in probate delays and does at least get their attention.

3

Have you contacted the Probate Registry to request an appointment to discuss and escalate the matter?

Copying text from an email excerpt from the recent Probate Professionals User Group meeting…

If you have not heard anything after 12 weeks and wish to request a surgery appointment, this can be arranged by contacting HMCTS by email: ProbateMT@justice.gov.uk. Surgery appointments cannot be requested by telephone.

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4

Can this service be used when waiting for approval of a rectification of a Will. We are coming up to six months and are unable to get any updates from the Probate Registry. We cannot progress the administration of the estate without the same.

5

I too am despairing about the dreadful “service” being provided by the Probate Service. I am experiencing problems in relation to the three issues that I will outline here.

Seal of the Irish Court not being recognised

I apply regularly for English Grants in the estates of deceased Irish-domiciled individuals and have been doing so since I set up my practice thirty years ago. As any practitioner who deals with such applications will know, on the application for the English Grant a sealed and certified copy of the Irish Grant, and Will if there is one, must be submitted. I am rigorous about checking that the documents that I receive from my instructing Irish solicitor are indeed sealed and certified and, if any is not, I ask for the correct document. I am absolutely satisfied that in all estates the document(s) that I submit are indeed sealed and certified copies.

This week I have received no fewer than six emails in relation to separate estates, alleging in each case that the document that I submitted does not bear the seal of the Irish Court. This is simply not the case. In one of those estates the Irish solicitor did not want to have to wait to receive the sealed and certified copy documents from the Irish Probate Office, so she sent me the original Irish Grant, which contains a copy of the Will, as was the case here before the change. It was alleged that that too did not bear the Court seal, which again is simply not true.

If a document has been scanned, how can it be seen from the scanned document whether or not the original document bore a Court seal?

Scanning problem

I submit all my applications by post. They are printed from software that I use for preparing Probate and HMRC forms. Earlier this week I received an email saying that a PA1P that I had submitted in an estate was “unreadable”. This can only have happened due to HMCTS’s scanning system, as what left my office was perfectly legible. I received an email this morning telling me that the PA!P and IHT207 that I had submitted were “blurry” after having been “scanned to the case”. I was asked to post “better copies” of the documents to Harlow but no doubt, if they too are scanned, they will be equally “blurry”. It must be clear to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that the fault does not lie with me but with the scanning system.

Applications in non-UK-domiciled estates

On a few occasions, after I had made a complaint about a delay, the matter was escalated and I received the Grant immediately. One of the complaints’ handlers told me that the case workers are not capable of dealing with non-UK-domiciled estates and that such estates have to go to a specialist team which has a large backlog. While some domiciles may give rise to complications, that is not the case in relation to an Irish-domicile. Before the change I sent all my applications to the Oxford DPR who never had any problems with Irish domiciled estates.

What on earth has happened to what was once a very efficient system?

Cliona O’Tuama

Solicitor

6

I had not been aware that it is possible to request a meeting to discuss an application, so I was pleased to read in the email yesterday from Sian Lias that a surgery appointment can be requested by email.

At the moment I am waiting to receive thirty seven Grants, the papers in some of which were submitted in 2024. It will be a very long meeting…………………….

Cliona O’Tuama

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It is interesting you say this as my estate is where the deceased was non-dom too. I wonder if it is non-dom estates predominantly where the issue arises

8

This is now nothing short of a public scandal and it is time that the Law Society took action on behalf of the profession and the public. It causes professional embarrassment that we cannot provide our clients with any sort of reliable time scale for the issue of grants and promises of escalation are not followed through. It causes hardship and expense when probate loans cannot be repaid and assets cannot be accessed for months or years after death. The problem seems to be exacerbated when there has to be a paper application or where there is something about the application that is not completely standard. I have managed to get IHT clearance on a big farming estate with APR and BPR claims before the grant has issued. I never thought I would see that happen.

9

I definitely think that non-domiciled estates are causing major problems now, as was admitted to me by a complaints’ handler. I have received Grants relatively quickly in UK-domiciled estates.

Cliona O’Tuama

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10

I agree completely with Caroline that it is now a public scandal. It is an absolute disgrace. I am going to contact my MP in the New Year. Fortunately, as well as being MP for where I live, my MP’s constituency also includes the City of London where my office is, so as she is MP for both addresses, I won’t fall between two stools!

I agree that The Law Society must take this up at a very senior level.

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I will contact The Law Society in the New Year and share the response.

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I look forward to hearing what The Law Society say.

13

That’s interesting, my case is also a non-dom and I was also told that their internal scanning was not legible!

14

I submitted an application for letters of administration (uk estate) in July 2024 after paying the IHT - the application is by a sibling of the deceased - i have had the standard “we cannot speak to you until 20 weeks have expired” response whenever we have chased the court - in November i emailed a contact i have made in the Brighton Registry (who appears to be a knowledgable adult!) - he came back to me immediately saying there appears to be a stop on my application as the court believes there is a will lodged in the court in my deceased’s name - it would have helped if someone told us..

We then rang the court in Newcastle asking how we can move matters along - if its his will then great but we need confirmation so we can notify the siblings - if its not then give me my grant - theyve requested death certificate (which we sent with the application) but have resent - again no response

We rang court again - oh yes it appears the will did not belong to your deceased and they send us an email to confirm this - great can we have our grant now - well its been referred to our specialist team and they will get in touch with you - we ring again and we are told there is nothing on record to say the will is not our deceased but if we have evidence to say its not ours can we send it to the court??!!!

it is 2026 in a week - no sign of the grant no contact from the court without us chasing - each call takes about 40 minutes - 30 minutes on hold 5 mins data protection and a few minutes giving us very little information

the system was not broken when they “fixed” it…its completely broken now

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