I’m having a strange problem with the TRS in trying to generate the certificate for proof of registration. The generated certificate keeps missing the settlor details, even though those details are visible on the account and last declared copy of trust details. Unfortunately the financial institution we are dealing with require specifically the certificate, but the only certificate I can generate is missing vital details, which means it will not be accepted by them.
Just wondering if anyone has come across this. I have called the TRS helpline, which was no help at all. They could see the settlor details are there on the account, as I can, but they cannot see the generated certificate, only press a button to post one to us (even though that may likely have exactly the same missing information when it eventually arrives).
It’s a fairly urgent situation for the clients so if anyone has come across this before or otherwise has any ideas I would be quite grateful.
I had exactly the same issue yesterday. Mine was for a Will trust, so I initially wondered if HMRC were somehow suppressing the settlor details because they are deceased, but I’ve not looked any deeper at this stage or flagged the error.
I too had one that didn’t show the settlor and wondered if it was because he was deceased. I know he was correctly shown on the system as I subsequently had access to it. Very odd.
Thank you both for your replies, seems to be a systemic problem then, not sure why on Earth the certificates have been done that way, it’s entirely unhelpful when another organisation needs to then see all information on the certificate and such key parts are omitted.
I genuinely wonder if things like this merit a claim for compensation from HMRC. Most likely professional fees for dealing with the problem but in the commercial world (say property acquisitions using nominees for a partnership or UT) an inability to get finance could cause some fairly hefty financial losses
If the system is designed not to show deceased settlors I think the proof of registration should make that clear eg “deceased settlors are not shown on this document “.
If that is not the intention then you have to wonder what HMRC are playing at, putting these rules into place when the software won’t support the requirements.
I share these concerns about the fee cost of HMRC’s shortcomings in process areas, including the need for professionals to spend inordinate and unnecessary time in navigating the very unsatisfactory routes offered to them for clarifying what HMRC mean by what they say in Manuals or other guidance.
I was never a contentious lawyer as such (so far as conducting a reserved activity) I was heavily involved in advising on actual or prospective tax litigation. So I offer my limited comments.
1 “Our law does not recognise a right to claim damages for losses caused by unlawful administrative actions” per Baroness Hale in oao Quark Fishing [2005] UKHL 57 at para 96.
2 Damages in a JR case where the public authority has been held to have acted unlawfully can only be awarded if it can also be proved that there was a private law claim in tort, contract or restitution, or a right to recover a debt, or a breach of human rights for which damages are the appropriate remedy under s8 HRA 1998. Quark was substantially an HRA case and the House of Lords (also including the other luminaries Lords Bingham, Nicholls Hoffman and Hope) unanimous in rejecting the claim.
3 Damages are discretionary under s8(3) HRA but the Administrative Court has jurisdiction to award them under s31(4) Senior Courts Act 1981 and so too the Upper Tribunal under s16(6)TCE 2007
4 There are very important procedural issues under the CPR and damages must be not the only remedy claimed but secondary to the non-monetary remedy sought for the primary public law claim.
5 In order to save an individual taxpayer litigating, a professional body would surely have standing; a “sufficient interest in the matter” per s31(3) SCA 1981
So all those on here who are still members of one of these craven, pusillanimous, supine organisations, please bombard them with evidence, evidence, evidence, calculated to rouse them from their Establishment torpor. I exclude, I think fairly, the LITRG from this excoriation.
This was raised in the HMRC Agent Forum and their response on 6 April 2023 was -
“This may be an intermittent issue. Can you please try logging back in to TRS and downloading the proof of registration again. If you are still experiencing problems, please use the link at the bottom of the TRS page to report a problem with the service.”
Well, I have received a copy of the certificate sent in the post after calling the TRS helpline a few weeks ago. The Settlor details are thankfully on this certificate (still same problem online), but they’ve got a different part slightly wrong instead, but I think not consequently at least.
So if anyone is having the same problem, call and ask for it to be sent in the post and you may have some luck!